Is Obsidian upside down, or inside out?

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1

Hello Obsidian community.

I think Obsidian may be upside down. Or inside out.

I’ll explain.

Problem

Obsidian MD does great job in styling the way the content looks in READING mode. Built-in styling, snippet CSS, plugins, are very powerful. It works, it’s nice.

However I don’t want any of that. I want the read view of my notes be flat, distraction free. Text only. No colours no borders, etc… I want the words to be the media for the message.

What’s the problem, don’t want it don’t use it?

Well, the problem is I need it. I need styling, but in EDIT mode.
I want my text to be presented in a styled way when I edit it, not when I view the final result in the READ mode (which I prefer text only).

EDIT mode provides instant access to the MD wiring. MD sticks out of the text forcing me to compile it in my head in real time as I edit my drafts. It does mark out the structure, but not accurate enough and effort to interpret the MD into the visual makes by brains throttle.

How nice would it be if I can enjoy the colors and custom formatting I can control with unobtrusive MD when I EDIT the text, when I create? Very. It would be very very nice, indeed.

For some reason EDIT mode is much less pliable than READ mode. Obsidian EDIT view HTML is less structured than READ HTML. For example, one can refer to a code block language in READ HTML selector but such data does not exist in EDIT HTML. One can customise list items style based on the list item level in READ mode, but one can not do that in EDIT mode.

Things I tried

PREVIEW mode, obviously

Almost works, but not quite. PREVIEW renders the note in READ style, and only the element that is being edited in EDIT style.

First, the edited element falls into the EDIT view which is not stylised. Not end of the world, but already a loss. Especially with call outs that turn into that scary structure where each line starts with > and a space.

Second, the PREVIEW plays nicely with standard styled MD elements, but elements styles with custom CSS often don’t switch to READ style correctly (possibly b/o poor CSS that breaks in PREVIEW or something). CSS and plugins also may start fighting for styling the PREVIEW producing amusing results.

Snippets CSS

I hit the fundamental issue of EDIT HTML not having enough data to allow defining css for EDIT. Could be just me though.

Community plugins

There are not many, but they exist. Codeblock Customizer is the one I use. While these plugins allow customising EDIT view beyond what I could achieve with custom CSS, these plugins were designed for a different task. The EDIT mode customisation covers only some MD elements, say code blocks, but would not allow customisation of lists, headers, call outs.

Disclaimer

Above are some strong statements. Like something been upside down, or things been impossible. Don’t shoot. :slight_smile: Just following Obsidian’s forum guidelines, to make posts interesting and engaging.

Jokes aside, to me the asymmetry between the styling of the EDIT view and READING view is obvious. Being the ‘lucky’ one who cares more about EDIT view I thought I would raise the point. I don’t know how to write html, css or js. I have general ability to look inside and figure out stuff, but that’s it. Maybe I’m not holding it right. Hope someone with better knowledge of Obsidian could give me some advice or programmers with proper skills would create a community plugin to help with EDIT styling. Or maybe, who knows! Obsidian Team will turn their view (see what I’m doing here) to a certain group of the app users who use it for creative writing.

2

I kind of get what you want, but just wanted to point out that markdown is one of the least obtrusive markup languages I’ve seen over the years as long as you don’t use WYSIWYG editors, like Word, Google Docs, LibreOffice & co, (which uses proprietary binary formats behind the scenes).

So I’d reckon I might look for a theme which strips away all bells and the whistles from the reading view, and focus on using the less obtrusive editing markup when editing in live preview so as not to be disturbed by it.

Not quite sure if you want every document in reading view as pure text, or just a few. If all, look for a theme, and if just a few look for a CSS snippet which takes away all the disturbing elements.

3

Thank you holroy.

Minimalistic theme without bells and the whistles indeed can take of the text only presentation in the reading view. This is a good tip.

For the edit view I don’t mind MD as such, it’s just I
want to see the effect of the MD ‘on the spot’.
Reasoning is this: “Hey, Obsidian, I’ve already paid the price of inserting MD tags, something, that is not content, in my text. May I have the formatting now please?”

Obsidian does that say for standard headers which change color as I add #symbols. Hence the expectations and the hope that I can try and get that for other elements, especially the ones changed with CSS

I do agree though, that what I want probably goes against the very concept of the MD. In effect I’m trying to hack MD mechanics to turn it into WYSIWYG.
But Obsidian started it first, with the headers!

4

It seems you would like a full WYSIWYG mode.
Have you read the ideas / requests in this topic? Fully visual editor mode (WYSIWYG / WYSWYG)

And I wrote in there something that sounds similar to what you experiment:

I’m almost never in read mode, because by definition in this mode you can’t edit anything. So this is a kind of punitive thing, you can’t never really enjoy your notes in the way they are best formatted (even if there’s still room for improvement in the way Obsidian formats things in read mode). The read mode is a frozen, lifeless, thus almost useless, mode.

So I use my notes 95% of the time with Live Preview, with downgraded formatting.

I was a new user of Obsidian, but I’ve just given up because I’ve realized that the software’s approach doesn’t suit me.

And I think a lot of users don’t realize how much effort they put into Obsidian, with plugins, CSS and so on, to counter the fondamental problem of the software: it is a markdown editor. In a markdown editor you are invited to write with the markdown syntax, and to see the final result in a read-only mode. This is perfectly fine if you are OK with that fundamental statement, which implies that the editing experience is quite austere, with the markdown syntax.

A lot of “tricks” are used to make the editing experience more friendly and appealing (with the Preview mode, or with the help of countless plugins), but as long as Obsidian is, in its core, a markdown editor, you will always have this friction during editing. And, maybe this nagging idea that, really, this markdown syntax, that constantly appears and prevents you from taking full advantage of your notes in editing mode, is ultimately more of a nuisance than anything else…

At least that’s the conclusion I’ve come to. I don’t want to have to edit my notes with markdown syntax. I find the editing experience much smoother and more efficient with a WYSIWYG editor.

The editing experience with Obsidian is not good, to say the least. I think the hype around the software came mainly from the fact that it was one of the first PKM to be free and local, and with the abundance of plugins (that manage to correct its many shortcomings). But writing and formatting notes with the software is really not pleasant.

Now there’s starting to be some other PKMs that are free and local, like Obsidian, but WYSIWYG, and not based on markdown editing. The user experience is much better, easier, smoother and more efficient. I think Obsidian will have to make a tough turn at some point if it is to remain attractive, in the face of these new competitors in WYSIWYG.

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5

That nails it.

Edit mode is where I create, spend most of the time, so this is where/when I want the formatting to be my tool, help to forge the text, not be the product. Leave the markdown tags visible, fine, but show me the effect immediately. Showing formatting in the View mode is too late. At that point I’m done. And in my case I don’t even need the formatting in the view mode (text-only).

6

I think there is room in the world for both approaches.

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