Concept notes are higher-order notes, not permanent Zettels

I have a potentially hot take I want to share: concept-based notes are always higher-order notes but not permanent notes.

I recently noticed a build up of concept-based notes in my vault that no longer felt permanent. These notes contained interesting information, but they would often feel disconnected to the rest of my vault.

Yes, I was linking to related concepts, thoughts of my own, etc. But that wasn’t enough to overcome the fact that I was collecting concepts without truly integrating them into my understanding.

Ultimately, my vault is a tool for learning, so where was the evidence of my learning?

I thought back to the principles of Zettelkasten. Zettelkasten is primarily a system for thinking about information, not retrieving it.

Retrieval of information from the Zettelkasten is a byproduct of connections, higher-order notes, and an index of keywords.

This Canvas diagram shows how concept-based notes are similar to keywords from Zettelkasten index.

Moving forward, I will look to create more content-based notes rather than simply collecting concept-based notes.

I’m curious to know how others respond to this idea.

Additionally, I find it interesting that so many of the concept notes that no longer felt permanent to me were also seriously breaking rules about note atomicity.

If I were to break up the information contained in each of these concept notes into separate atomic notes, the end result would look more like a higher-order note than a permanent note.

Here are two more Canvas graphics that are related:


I’m not sure that I understand exactly what you mean by a concept-based note.

That being said, your last canvas graphic mirrors pretty much exactly how my vault functions. What you call “thing notes” I call “encyclopedic” and they occupy the root directory of my vault. My thought notes I store in a “Cards” folder and they contain statements about things. When a card talks about a thing I make a link to the thing. Thus, the things effectively become indexes. Just like you said.

I used to think that I should avoid making thing notes because it could cause scope creep and make me accidentally rewrite wikipedia. With time, I started using encyclopaedic notes to store how I define and understand the thing. That way I can better interpret the thought cards because I can see how I defined the concept to begin with.

One of the biggest problems for users of digital note taking applications is falling into the trap of “form over function”. Yes, as a Zettelkasten or other system of data collection grows larger and larger, form becomes a somewhat prominent influence. However, many quickly lose focus on the primary function of the application and exercise as a whole. The principle of “form over function” when applied in a business management context is commonly expressed as “paralysis by analysis”, which seems applicable to your concern for “random thoughts” not directly associated with a major topic or focus…

We seem to have similar strategies, but different words:

  • definitions notes is my name for thing notes or encyclopedic notes. I like to add links to Wikipedia, so that I don’t have to rewrite Wikipedia. I use them mostly for aliases and linking. (I also have persons notes, that apply the same principle to persons, and organisations notes for organisations, companies, and such.)
  • Zettels is how I call thought notes or Cards. Some have statements, some have questions.
  • Literature notes are the foundation of my vault.

I agree that having definition notes or encyclopedic notes makes it much simpler to write Zettels or thought notes. I don’t have to add encyclopedic details, when a simple link to a definition note will do.

Definition notes make it also easy to retrieve information, what I consider a good thing.

If I understand well, I’ve something similar, in the end, but different organizations and terms.

I consider higher order notes part of the zettel space, but this is simply a matter of modeling our view of the system, how to place different things.

I think that what you call “concept note” is my “molecular note”. Something that is a description of a “broader concept” and the composition of more elementar notes, built using links to other notes. Maybe molecular (molecule is “bigger” and composite, compared to an “atom”) is a more evocative term than concept.

I have into my zettel space different “nuances” of contents (ideas, principles, facts, people, and so on…) but I prefer not classify the nuances with a different type for each kind of note. Having too types to manage creates too friction, and I don’t find useful to explicit the type. I prefer call all of them zettel and this is enough. It’s from the context and the title that I infer their type, role and use, that they are all always implicit.

I have only one distintion between zettels, i use a ✱ at the end of the title that indicates a note written in claim, opinionated or evocative form (for example, notes like “do…”, “don’t”, “A is better than B for…” and so on). In this way when I compose them into another note I can recognize at sight notes that idenfitifies claims, principles, rules to follow, advices and so on.

I use in a very similar way, I think. They tipically have an intro/descriptive part about the concept they represent, and one or more structures of links to other notes related to the concept, tipically thoughts and principles developed processing the concept.
For this role I call them “pivot”. For their composite structure, I call them “molecular notes”. They are also “micro-structure-notes”, are small entry points for a cluster of notes.
neither “pivot” nor “molecular” are tags or metadata of this kind of notes. They are zettels like others as type

Thank you all for your replies—they’ve been very helpful in refining my claim and improving my ideas. I see how my explanation was confusing.

I’ll try to clarify.

I encountered the idea of concept vs. content-based notes in this thread. The thread doesn’t clearly define the terms, and in reconsideration, I’m not particularly attached to this notion.

However, my intent remains the same:

Grounding the Discussion in Luhmann’s Ideas

I want to ground this discussion in some of Niklas Luhmann’s ideas—specifically, how he wrote his notes and how that relates to his use of an index.

I’m not an expert on Luhmann, but from what I understand, most of his notes were about specific claims rather than broad concepts. It’s unclear to what extent he used higher-order notes, but he linked multiple notes together within a single note. However, that’s not necessarily the same as higher-order notes.

Luhmann did keep an index of keywords that served as “entry points” into his system. Each keyword had 1-2 references to cards that made good entry points for that keyword, allowing him to follow references to other cards from those entry points.

Here’s a concrete example

I’ve been reading about situation awareness, a broad concept. Here are some specific claims about SA:

  • SA is understanding the bigger picture while focusing on the finer details
  • Dr. Mica Endsley developed the most widely cited and accepted model of SA
  • The SA construct evolved under the intense pressures of aviation and is now widely applicable across disciplines
  • SA is an important part of effective decision making

To avoid redundancy, information should only appear in one location unless linked. This leaves us with two options: make (1) individual notes for specific claims or (2) a single note for a broad concept.

I am suggesting that Luhmann made individual notes for specific claims.

Even the definition of a broad concept is itself a single claim that can be an individual note.

Continuing with the example, “Situation awareness” would become a keyword, and each claim would have its own note. In the index, “Situation awareness” would be listed next to 1-2 of the best entry points for this concept.

Connecting this to your comments

What others call encyclopedic notes are what I’m describing as broad concept notes. This is not to be confused with a definition note, which makes a claim about the definition of a term or concept.

Zettels are notes about specific claims, where each claim gets a separate note.

I suggest that encyclopedic notes often do not follow principles of atomicity and therefore should not be considered permanent notes. However, I understand that most people may not care to make their encyclopedic notes atomic. In that sense, do what works for you.

Retrieval of information is an important function of this kind of system. For Luhmann (and other “true Zettlers”), retrieval is a secondary function. The primary function is thinking. I believe this is an important distinction to make. Are you taking this note primarily to help you think, or to help you find information in the future? Thinking requires Zettels. Encyclopedic notes can help with the retrieval aspect.

I like your concept of the “molecular note”, especially the connection to atomic notes.

One distinction I have yet to make here is between higher-order notes and encyclopedic notes. I’m stuck on that at the moment, but maybe someone else has an idea.

I completely agree. It seems many of us are on the same page here—we’re just using different terms with slightly different approaches and principles.

In summary

What I’ve described as “broad concept notes” are commonly referred to as encyclopedic notes and are primarily useful for the collection and retrieval of information, Wikipedia-style. The nature of these notes is that they are not permanent. Zettels are atomic notes about specific claims and are permanent by nature.

I’m curious what other people think of this idea.

I realize my posts would be shorter if my ideas were clearer, but it feels like we’re making progress here.

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I think this discussion is more relevant for “true Zettlers” (as you call them).

For me personally, Zettelkasten is just one of many sources of inspiration. I admire Luhmann for his ingenuity. I consider his Zettelkasten a fascinating historic artefact.

Why ingenuity? There are many underlining dynamics, properties and effects behind the apparent simplicity of his model. The process is simple (to describe) but its use has a really huge impact if understood and applied well.

He built a highly original and unique productivity tool for himself, by himself.

Oh, my bad, “ingenuity” in italian is almost identical to “ingenuità”, that translates to “naive, silly”.
I’m sorry, I totally misunderstood your post due to a false friend between italian and english languages.
so fun :slight_smile:

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True. However, the principles of Luhmann’s Zettelkasten are applicable to whoever wants to seriously engage in knowledge work. The system is less important than the principles, which are universal.