Why is writing so hard?

Hello everyone!

I’d like to start a thread about the main challenges you face in writing and keeping yourself in a state of “flow”. I know that there are many obstacles towards writing (like setting aside enough time to sit down and think), but let’s keep this discussion about the problems in the actual process.

For me, it’s
(1) Finding the right words and phrases - I feel like I’m not really capturing my thoughts accurately and I get stuck going back and forth, re-re-re-writing… If I can’t resist this temptation, it pulls me into “editor mode” and all the creativity is stifled.

(2) I often derail my train of thought away from the original point I was trying to make and never come back. This is especially true when I write a long-form notes. I’m aware that one of the goals of writing can be to explore the unknown, but I find it an anxious (and somewhat fruitless) experience when I can’t come to clear conclusions. The more I write, the more questions I usually have and the harder is to navigate them over time.

I’d love to hear about your challenges (and how you overcome them)!

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Hi!
When it comes to writing, I have a few “peculiarities” within my writing process:

I often don’t know where to begin. When starting a piece, I have Ideas that I can’t put aside until I have written them down. Due to this, I often start writing within Excalidraw; I write thoughts down in what ends up to be a cluttered mess of text boxes that I then try to put in an order.
Once I am able to create a coherent text, I convert everything into Markdown, but I go back again to Excalidraw if I need to change the outline. Usually when I do this, I had to adjust how I approach the task and end up putting text fragments aside.

I also have the problem of staying within a writing flow. Due to this, I always write in stages: my first drafts are made without spell-checking. I only enable it once the content is complete and put into the (hopefully) final order — if I don’t like a word or a phrasing, I highlight it and worry about it later.

This writing process surely is not the best in terms of effectiveness, but it feels less forced to me. I also remain more flexible and can easier rewrite the text if necessary. Because of this, I am usually more satisfied with the texts that I write using this method.

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Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Skyl!

You’re saying that you “often don’t know where to begin”. What’s your motivation to start writing, then? What’s the trigger?

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I would say I have the same problems.

  • Finding the right words and phrases. I would add a problem with sentence structure. Getting too fancy or fussy instead of just using a simple sentence to get it out and move forward. I’m always trying to add context and extra meaning to a single sentence when I need a paragraph to do the job.

  • Derailing thoughts. This carries over from the first point for me. Regressing or interjecting extra context that seems relevant to me, muddles the point and kills momentum. It leads to dead ends for the reader.

  • Not knowing where to start. Also, a big problem. How much background is necessary? Did I grab attention with a good hook? Should I jump right into the middle and add an explanation later? Do I need to introduce the big picture and work down, or start granular and build up?

  • One more challenge to add. Having an ending. How do I wrap this up? What did I miss? Did I make this worth reading? Does it make sense? How did I get here?

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How about using GPT for writing, the way programmers use it for programming?

I wonder if anyone has tried using Chat GPT for writing the way programmer do it.

I’m pretty sure that I’m good at writing, because I read a lot as a kid. But, you can’t really go back in time.

What you could do is put your thoughts into Chat GPT, and tell it to write an essay for you, the way I would ask it to write a function. Then, read the essay, find the mistakes, and it will lead you to improve your word choice in prompting.

That would do one of two things:

  1. Make it easier for your to write
  2. Give you an already written essay

Cheers!

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GPT can have a place in writing, but using it to write the essay and touching it up doesn’t really resolve the problems mentioned so far. Adding on, to many folks, writing is about more than just producing a work of writing (I assume OP values the process of writing itself else they would have considered an easier way out already).

If your challenge is word choice, a GPT isn’t going to make you more articulate: it’s just going to make it’s best guess and you won’t have the necessary skills to assess whether it’s accurately capturing what you mean to express. You could have a conversation about word choice, though, and perhaps come to a better option than you would have alone.

“Write the whole essay” also takes away the beneficial part of the exploration process. But, you could instead take two things that “feel” related and ask the GPT to help you connect the two until it comes up with a sensible connection. I think that would be a way to leverage the extended thinking of GPT tools rather than asking it to do the thinking for you.

And GPT also won’t challenge you. I’m an AI-skeptic, but in writing this I was forced to consider the actual utility of GPT (trying to be intellectually honest) and identified some ways to use a GPT that I might actually like to try. If I simply fed a GPT a prompt stating “Please write a few paragraphs explaining how AI is incapable of resolving problems X, Y, and Z”, I wouldn’t have had this experience.

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Many of us have a lot of ideas when we don’t have anything to write down them :smile:

When I got an idea, I had at least my phone, with access to the ChatGPT. And this looks like this:

I would like to write a short story about a group of forum users who search for a lost gem, Obsidian? Can you please provide me few ideas for short story?

Here are a few ideas for your story about forum users searching for the lost gem, Obsidian:

# 1. The Digital Treasure Map

The story begins on a niche forum where users discuss ancient artifacts and legends. A new user posts…

# 2. The Obsidian Cult

Rumors circulate on the forum about a secretive group that hoards rare gems, including the Obsidian Gem, and…

# 3. The Virtual Obsidian

A highly advanced virtual reality simulation called “Obsidian” is rumored to hold a hidden artifact that bridges…

# 4. The Obsidian Curse

Legends on the forum speak of the Obsidian Gem being cursed, bringing bad luck to anyone who seeks it…

# 5. The Forgotten Thread

An old forum thread from over a decade ago resurfaces, detailing a user’s quest to find the Obsidian Gem…

# 6. Obsidian: A Shard of Memory

The Obsidian Gem is rumored to have the ability to restore lost memories. When a long-time forum user reveals…

Would you like to develop one of these further or combine elements from multiple ideas?

I love the idea of “The Obsidian Curse”. Can you please create a story’s backbone with setting, character, plot, conflict, and theme?

Here’s the backbone for “The Obsidian Curse”:


# Setting

The story unfolds across a mix of digital and physical worlds. The primary digital setting is a niche online forum called Obsidian Hunters, where members from around the globe discuss myths and legendary artifacts…


# Characters

1. Alex (Protagonist): A skeptic and rational thinker who dismisses the curs…
2. Riley (Believer): A passionate believer in the supernatural who’s convinced…
3. Morgan (Historian): A meticulous researcher who provides historical…
4. Lila (Tech Wizard): A hacker and puzzle-solver who digs into digital archives…
5. The Shadow (Antagonist): A mysterious figure who warns the group to abandon…


# Plot

*1. Exposition: *

  • A user posts a cryptic message on the forum, claiming they’ve uncovered the location of the legendary Obsidian Gem but…*

*2. Rising Action: *

  • The group’s search takes them from digital forums to real-world expeditions. They visit sites marked by…*

*3. Climax: *

  • Deep within an ancient cave, the group finds the Obsidian Gem surrounded by warnings etched in stone…*

*4. Falling Action: *

  • Alex decides to smash the gem, shattering its physical form and, with it, the legend of the curse. The group escapes…*

*5. Resolution: *

  • Back on the forum, the group posts their findings, warning others about the dangers of obsession…*

# Conflict

- Internal Conflict: Alex struggles to reconcile their skepticism with the increasingly bizarre events…
- External Conflict: The group battles both physical challenges (traps, natural dangers) and the psychological…
- Interpersonal Conflict: Tensions rise among the group as fear, doubt, and differing beliefs about…


# Theme

- Obsession and Its Consequences: The story explores how obsession, even in pursuit of truth, can blind people…
- Belief vs. Skepticism: It delves into the tension between science and the supernatural, showing…
- The Power of Legends: The narrative examines how myths influence behavior, blurring…

Would you like to expand on any part, such as character details, specific settings, or key scenes?


(I haven’t read this text in detail, so I apologise if something is written that shouldn’t be on this forum!)

At this point, I step away from ChatGPT … I forgot to mention it, but it is evident that English is not my first language! :slight_smile: … now I have enough material to work on it. If it’s good, I continue. If I don’t like it, I talk more with ChatGPT. I go into detail, write part of the story, character, plot, and dialogue, and throw it into ChatGPT to get his opinion or suggestion and primarily for grammar :joy:

If I get another idea for a story, I do the same thing and put it in an archive for some other day to work on it. Oh, and towards the end, It gets nasty - I need to translate it into my language :roll_eyes:

So yes, writing is hard, and everyone is struggling with his obstacles. Most importantly, we shouldn’t give up. And 2nd most crucial thing is - (ok, two) don’t be afraid of sharing your progress with someone who can give you honest feedback.

Cheers, Marko :nerd_face:

  • Being in flow state is exhausting. Nobody spews out polished stuff.
  • I share all of your challenges plus my own unique ones. For me, it’s being seduced by tangents, such as “research and draft a short about the cyclic nature of the words languish, nourish, and flourish”. Nice flow, for a while. Then doldrums set in; languished, head fried, can’t focus… “why bother?” - but it is in a Obsidian note:)
  • For me it’s all about managing tangents and fragments. And, regular endeavors to take breaks and slow my head.
  • A therapist guided me towards recognizing that flow state and all it’s marketing is pitched as a “fast” state when it should be sold as a path to incorporating the concept of “slow work” into our lives.
  • There is no quick path to a polished piece of writing. And, lets face it, we’ve had our attention stolen from us for several generations now.
  • I’ve learned to accept that fragments of story and scene take time to arrive, time to ruminate, and time to draft and polish.
  • Getting the ideas and other fragments is akin to capturing content into our vaults; quick. But it’s the thoughtful review and writing that is necessarily slow and required for us to get to the promised land in our PKM and writing efforts.
  • 85 years later Niklas Luhmann’s words still resonate:

“I only do what is easy. I only write when I immediately know how to do it. If I falter for a moment, I put the matter aside and do something else.”

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What do you think about the concept of flow state being directly opposed to the concept of deliberate practice? While, for me, writing is not either of these states, it can feel like one or the other, or cycling through both. And yes it’s mentally exhausting. I should have listed that.

Just a thought.

So deliberate practice isn’t just about getting better. It’s also about building endurance/tolerance. Every time you enter a flow state you’re bypassing this process, and you are not building more tolerance for longer, focused writing time.

I’ve heard of slow work or slow productivity. Could be a middle ground way of thinking about it.

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Huh, I never thought to relate the two.

When I think of a writing task like journaling, I see it as an easy thing to get into a flow state given sufficient “fuel” (temporally relevant events, high emotions, etc.). But, when I lack that fuel and try to journal, it feels more strenuous, and I deliberately try to cue ideas. I feel like there’s a broader implication of that to writing on the whole.

I believe deliberate practice enhances flow state; practice builds craft skills and that reduces friction when in flow state.

To me, flow state is performance while practice is rehearsal.

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Managing the language, drafting, and polishing; finding the right words and phrases, determining what to write next all have the characteristic of performing deliberate practice which requires conscious effort. The flow state is characterized as an optimized state of consciousness with effortless effort.

I think this applies to writing this way? There is no difference between performance, practice, or rehearsal. Writing is a unit of work done both consciously and intuitively. These concepts are permeable in this context, not discreet mindsets. Task switching and micro task switching seems applicable here.

I’m bring this up because I’m curious about slow work as an answer to anxiety about productivity.

Great topic! Staying in a state of “flow” while writing can definitely be challenging. For me, the main hurdles in the actual process are:

  1. Overthinking:
    I sometimes get stuck trying to perfect every sentence as I write, which pulls me out of the flow. Learning to focus on getting ideas down first and editing later has been a game-changer.
  2. Distractions:
    Even minor interruptions, like notifications or background noise, can break my concentration. I find that setting up a dedicated, quiet space and using tools like “focus mode” apps helps me stay immersed.
  3. Writer’s Block:
    There are moments when I know what I want to say, but I can’t find the words. Taking short breaks or switching to a different section of the piece often helps to reset my mind.
  4. Self-Doubt:
    Sometimes I start questioning whether what I’m writing is “good enough,” which can really derail my momentum. Reminding myself that the first draft doesn’t have to be perfect helps me push through.

I’d love to hear how others tackle these challenges or if there are other obstacles I haven’t thought of! What works for you all to stay in flow?

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Thanks for creating this topic! This is helpful to read and relate to the issues other people are having. I tend to have issues with organizing a lot of ideas together. For example, if you have hundreds of notes detailing ideas about a story, and you are trying to pull out the best parts of them and compile it into a solid outline, it can be difficult to do so because some of the ideas are mutually exclusive. But that doesn’t mean that some aspect of the one idea might not serve to be useful. This is especially true if you tend to like to keep things very fluid and when a single idea has the ability to alter the interpretation and implementation of all the other ideas. To be clear, I am referring to struggles I have before all of the idea notes have been reviewed and thus before an outline has been created. It is in this unknown state where I know the next note I review might drastically alter my story. Unfortunately having many ideas crowds the good ones and a memory is only so good,

So, I find myself trying to keep things organized such that I keep the ideas of utmost importance together in a list as I review the vault. Both Canvas and Excalidraw have the ability to help with organization, but I often feel like I jump into using these tools too early. Instead, I try to almost do a preprocessing pass to bubble the best bits to the top, not to be forgotten, while also moving many notes to a compost folder where I leave the original versions of the notes before the good parts are extracted out into other notes. Since I leave a link, there is a trail. And since I leave the text in the composted note, it is still findable via search. So, if I want to find the original context, it is still there.

All of this being said, my process feels to chaotic and exhausting often times, and requires a lot of work up front for what turns out to be very little output. In my case, I am writing for an animation style that has so many abstractions, symbols, and layers of almost allegorical meaning that such a headache is to be expected.

Thanks!

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