Hi @gestaltist (love the handle by the way), this is a really good question. I’m new to Obsidian, but not to Personal Knowledge Management (PKM) as I have a professional background in organisational learning and development.

A few people here have already commented on how Zettelkasten principles have helped their thinking, and I have hugely benefitted in much the same way. What I’d like to add to the discussion so far is a simple insight, and the ‘deep structure’ behind it.

In my experience, people often get confused between “what” they want to think about and “how” to think about it. Reading the posts here in the forum, many people seem to start with - and then fixate on - the what, and I would humbly suggest that you start the other way round.

On Borrowing PKM Ideas Wisely

To state what is obvious, there is no perfect off-the-shelf tool and neither is there a “right way” to do PKM or to use Obsidian. And yet you’ll find plenty of advice out there that implies ‘their way’ is superior.

Probably the best advice I’ve found so far on seeking developmental help from others (who know what they’re doing) came from a book by chess grandmaster Joshua Waitzkin called, “The Art of Learning” (2008 I think). He recounts the story of how he chose the wrong mentor when he had outgrown his current mentor early in his career. The full story is too long to tell here, so I’ll just give you the context and punch-line.

Waitzkin was struggling against some Russian competitors who used some underhand, aggressive tactics. So he chose to work with a Russian grandmaster as his new mentor, thinking he’d learn from him how to beat them at their own game.

His error was simple but easy to make: he wasn’t like these players in personality or life experience, and so he couldn’t use their tactics as effectively as they could.

The lesson? Choose a mentor/source of ideas who is like you. A mentor that is like you understands how you think, feel and behave. And you can apply his success insights and make them work for you, precisely because he’s “like you”.

This lesson is highly relevant to PKM: all PKM is not the same to all people. It’s essential IMO to borrow ideas from someone with similar objectives to yours, and it’s highly desirable that they play in a similar field and/or share a similar personality. This increases the chance that their PKM insights will work for you.

PKM vs PKM Tools

We often seek out a new bit of software because the current one isn’t working for us. I don’t know about you, but when I feel this way I often don’t know exactly why… so it takes some deep thinking and reflection to decide a way forward.

To complicate matters, the next leap in my productivity of thought is not the same thing as being more productive in my use of time. “Managing time” is too simplistic a concept for managing thought. Thinking is not linear, nor something you sit down to “make” in a production-line sort of way. Thinking is messy, chaotic, emergent and we really don’t know how we actually ‘do it’.

So how might you go about configuring a “second brain” tool to work for you?

Good PKM Tools Extend Cognition

To state the obvious, we already use methods to “extend” our thinking.

We extend our thinking beyond what we can hold in short term memory in our heads by using paper notes, mind maps, doodles, annotations, digital markup of pdfs and books… all of which are means of ‘thinking’ about the connections between new ideas and our existing knowledge (stored in memory) and the questions we’re exploring (ie what we want to learn).

The ‘Wrong’ Metaphor for PKM

It’s worth thinking for a moment about the predominant metaphor of mind: that of mental “processing” or in other words, the “brain is a computer” metaphor. Personally, I don’t find this metaphor helpful at all.

It’s a useful metaphor for academics studying how the mind works through neuro-imaging studies, and subsequently for working on theoretical models of mind or for building AI algorithms. But you can’t “use” these insights in practice because the machinery of mind is largely opaque to us as we’re using it.

So let me offer an alternative “frame” for the practice of PKM: that of navigation.

We “navigate the world” with our “mental maps”, making predictions and simulating what might happen in order to make choices. Most of our navigation is achieved on autopilot. And we only make (or find/adopt) new mental maps when the old ones aren’t good enough, or when we enter into “new waters” that we are unfamiliar with. The latter is the stuff of PKM.

In other words, we need to “navigate” the world of ideas. We don’t process new ideas in a computer-processing or production line sort of way.

PKM as Memory-Loss Mitigation and Relevance-Realisation

Returning for a moment to the cognitive science of mental processing, the workings of the brain are highly “analogical” (Google Hoffstadter and “thinking by analogy” to go deeper) in that we categorise experiences, ideas and people by their similarity. We think and reason by analogy, in other words.

The analogies that pop into our thoughts, seem to do so of their own volition. Our ideas and thoughts bubble up to the surface of conscious thought from memory, via a subconscious process of “activation”. And the likelihood of activation is dependent on the neural pathways (ie learning): well-trodden paths are more likely to be triggered as relevant.

A good practical illustration is language learning. I lived and worked in Madrid for a few years, and had to learn Spanish from scratch (I became proficient enough to conduct business). About 9 months in, I said to my language tutor Rocio that I was struggling with the fast-talking pace of meetings, and that everyone talked over each other. And by the time I’d figured out what to say, the conversation had moved on…

She told me to let go of understanding everything, and just be content with understanding what I can at the time, and to focus on keeping up with the gist of the conversation. Then, after each meeting she said I should write down the words I remembered, but did not understand.

The deeper process behind this advice is simple: we have two types of vocabulary when learning a new language, passive words and active words. We are unable to recall passive words until we hear them, at which point we understand them. But when expressing ourselves they get stuck on the tip of the tongue. By contrast, active words are instantaneously available to us whenever we need them.

Words move from passive to active vocabulary with repetition and use, pure and simple. From the brain’s point of view, all new ideas and concepts are the same.

So what does this mean for PKM? PKM can ‘extend’ our thinking in two ways: by helping recall and flagging relevance.

Without recall aids, we will not use thoughts or ideas (ie understanding that is attached to words) that have not yet earned a permanent (ie active) place in memory.

And without relevance flags, we will struggle to navigate new ‘thinking’ waters (which we’re usually navigating in thick ‘fog’), by providing a scaffolding for our learning and thinking in the form of “relevant ideas” that are likely to be productive.

The idea of relevance is connected to, and yet different from, the idea of analogy. Another neuroscientist (John Vervaeke) has coined the term “relevance realisation” for his theory that the brain is a self-organising system of relevance realisation (Google his paper on “relevance realisation” to go deeper). In other words we don’t know, or rather can’t be conscious of, how we evaluate relevance. Ideas just pop into awareness. Clarity about decisions just falls into place.

Since the machinery of analogy and relevance is largely unconscious, I would suggest that relevance is the HOOK we are looking for in our PKM process. But what kind of relevance? Relevance to our goals, problems and questions.

So navigation means ‘seeing what’s relevant’ in this sense. We can “prime” our brains to “look for relevance” by clarifying and thinking about our goals before we start to work on something.

A PKM tool is a relevance-realisation tool, at all sorts of levels.

Obsidian for PKM

Like most people here, I consume A LOT of new information in many different forms. And I lose most of the ideas that I’ve had. So for me, a PKM tool has to mitigate what you might think of as a ‘memory loss’ problem. In this sense, relevance is secondary to recall. Or to put it another way, we lose new ideas and connections before we are able to shape them and then commit them to active memory, and therefore ‘think with them’.

I was an early adopter of Evernote way back, and tied myself up in knots with all these problems of thought. I then moved onto DevonThink, which doesn’t require perfect foresight about your future self. For example, a particular problem is how you might search for something long after you’ve forgotten how you stored it, why you thought it, when you thought it and where you thought it. An even worse problem is not even thinking to look for thoughts you had in the past, because you ‘lost them’ or didn’t think them ‘relevant’.

I still use DevonThink, which is fantastic storage tool for its metadata and AI-based advanced search, with fuzzy logic (eg it ‘understands’ typos) and ‘smart’ filing (ie automatically-filling folders based on Boolean-style search queries). It gives me the best chance of finding stuff that might be useful, without knowing where I put it.

My mind is not as organised as that of Bri Watson! I’m a messy thinker, working on messy problems. Categorisation systems help, but they’re not a “thinking tool” for me in the way they probably are for most academics. I think of myself as a practitioner: I ‘use’ insights from science and academia by figuring out how to apply them to the messy real world, so the formal categories of academia don’t usually match the practical ones of my ‘problem world’.

So if intelligent storage still isn’t helping me to “think”… what’s missing? The “connections” between notes represent my current state of “understanding” and my judgments about “relevance”.

Understanding is about integrating new knowledge with existing knowledge and experience, and relevance is about discovering the right knowledge and applying it to problems and questions.

In other words, if you agree with my framing of the PKM process, the links in Obsidian can be used to navigate the processes (which are iterative, not linear) of learning and problem solving.

Andy Matuschak (former research head at Khan Academy) has written on his blog about using Anki cards and writing good questions/prompts, and I’d recommend Googling him to figure out how to use Obsidian as a way of filtering the wheat from the chaff and committing the wheat to memory via Anki cards. Andy’s blog is what led me to Obsidian in the first place.

I hope this helps in some way.

28 Likes

PS: I wrote another post in the Knowledge Management area about my folder structure, thinking process and apps I use - in case of interest.

I really love how you put this. I think this is in a sense more accurate than “a system for connecting the dots” or “knowledge management tool” or “second brain”. “Knowledge management tool” lacks a purpose and “second brain” is too vague". A system for connecting the dots" doesn’t really take into account what dots are relevant, which is actually what matters in the real world. I think “relevance-realization tool” really captures what’s missing.

On a related note, I think the process of realizing what’s relevant for a particular difficult problem is also another way to say “that’s an insight”. I’ve read a bit into the Insight Problem Solving literature, and insight can be thought of as a representational change that leads to solutions, which is maybe a more rigorous way to say that “you suddenly notice what’s relevant to the problem at hand”.

There are two (among several) widely known mechanisms that lead to insights - the kind of insights you can study in labs through nine-dots problems and the like, they are: constraint relaxation and chunk decomposition.

Making notes is, in a sense, externalizing representations, which means you can better detect constraints that are being imposed unnecessarily. Interconnected notes is a way to facilitate chunk decomposition, because an Evergreen note is similar to a chunk in that you can decompose it into other chunks which can help reconfigure your representation - or how you look at a problem. I think that’s how practicing PKM can facilitate the processes that yield insights.

1 Like

This is such a great question. It prompted me to think about the practical outcomes of using Obsidian and how it tangibly helps me in my life. For me at least, I’d say it’s not a fad, but rather an approach to organizing and recalling my thoughts. It helps me to avoid that awful, overwhelming feeling of things “slipping through my fingers.”

I use three vaults in my day-to-day life: a Work vault for notes relating to my employer; a Personal vault for notes about my life, family, and creative work; and a Reference vault for notes that are useful to both (but particular to neither).

Since they are useful for different reasons, I’ll answer separately for each one:

Reference Vault

My reference vault is the most academic of the three, and I use it to remember and recall solutions to problems, especially technical ones.

Remember how-tos, examples, and other notes as I discover solutions to problems. It feels good to know that a tutorial or clever solution I discovered is saved for future reference.

Organize notes into meaningful topics. It’s hard to overstate how valuable this is. Since Obsidian is primarily a wiki, it’s easy to create useful topics and link pages in multiple places to make them easy to discover later.

Recall those how-tos and examples on demand. I use the vault in this way daily. Because the topics and notes are organized in a way that reflects the way I think, I’m never more than a click or two away from the information I’m looking for.

A notepad for sketching out thoughts, jotting down temporary notes (like this one), and experimenting with ideas. The Excalidraw plugin is great for this.

Work Vault

My work vault is a combination of project management tool, reference folder, and CRM.

Project management: Track status of hundreds of tasks and their projects. Provide regular reports to my supervisor on status of active, delegated, and stalled projects. The Kanban and Dataview plugins are instrumental for this.

Product management: Maintain summary and details of dozens of products. For example, it makes it easy for me to quickly review all our products’ backlogs, or provide a high-level review.

Reference: same as Reference vault above, but reserved for topics and notes specific to my employer.

Contact list: Having my common contacts as their own notes makes typing their names and referring to them very easy. For some contacts, I also retain interaction history so I can be reminded of important details in the future.

Design and Drawing: As a software developer, I often use this vault to sketch out software designs, system interactions, flow charts, and other diagrams. Excalidraw is excellent for this. And these diagrams are first-class notes that I can organize and search the same way as my text notes.

Journal: Maintain years of history on meeting notes, contacts and interactions, completed projects, and more. Useful when I want to see my notes from meetings, conferences, or past reports.

Personal Vault

Perhaps the most loosely-organized of the three, my Personal vault is where I work on creative ideas, games, keep notes on books and other research, and many other things.

Create stories and games The most prolific output of my Personal vault is creative writing and game development. I use it to maintain notes on characters, locations, plots, maps, and more, and then print out what’s needed for the table. I can go back and review notes when I come back to a story later and need to remember what’s happened so far. I use the vault in this way about weekly.

Help process books, articles, and other items as I read them, research them, and try to understand and integrate them. These notes are somewhat ephemeral, but they help me focus my thinking, find patterns, and explore new ideas. I find this method especially helpful for digesting non-fiction.

Reference: As the Reference vault above, but for tracking things for myself and my family. For example, I keep how-tos for helping family members, links to manuals for our tech, and more.

Overall

I hope this summary is helpful – it was helpful to me to ask the question: is Obsidian is a practical help to my life or not? I think the answer is a resounding yes. :slight_smile:

2 Likes

I must say that was a damn good read ! I’m currently in the process of rebuilding the PKM part of my system because I realised it didn’t fit my needs at all. I struggled to re-use the knowledge stored in it and there was too much friction.

I work in mechanical engineering and now realise that I might be looking for very different functions in a PKM than somebody working in a more literate field. Your post helped me realise that second-brain, LYT, zettelkasten or frameworks such as those might not be suited to my needs. I need to figure out a purpose-built solution that works for me, and hope it will help as I undertake my upcoming PhD.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time of writing a post with so many details. Down the rabbit hole I keep going !

1 Like

Can you please provide a link to this blog?

1 Like

This?

https://andymatuschak.org/

Angel

1 Like

Reading a book on the history of knowledge management.

Too Much to Know: Managing Scholarly Information before the Modern Age: Blair, Ann M., ISBN-13 ‏ : ‎ 978-0300165395

Some of the “challenges” of knowledge management and knowledge sharing were already being discussed 2,000+ years ago.

:slightly_smiling_face:

2 Likes

That book looks fascinating! I teach Latin at a classical school where “commonplacing,” keeping a copybook, researching with index cards, etc. Are practices we teach kids. I’m using digital PKM to teach high school students to write papers, and I think it helps that they’re already somewhat aware of analog PKM systems.

From the opposite point of view, I think we modern PKMers learn a lot by studying the knowledge systems of thinkers from before the computer age. I find it instructive to look at Cicero’s discussion of sententiae, medieval florilegia, and Isaac Newton’s commonplace books. In Latin class, I talk to my students about the use of pocket wax and ivory tablets, and how they played the same role as personal whiteboards, notepads, and note taking apps do today. Obsidian might be too young to give us accurate insight into what it can accomplish, but PKM as such is thousands of years old. The question that arises is—if these people could accomplish so much with such primitive tools, what am I able to do if I’m doing the exact same thing as them but much more efficiently?

2 Likes

@JAndrews2 I share your enthusiasm.

And it is good to know that we do not need to (re)invent the wheel.

:slightly_smiling_face:

I had similar reservations. What is the purpose of all of this? I came to the conclusion that I don’t know, I don’t care and why does it matter? I do plenty of things in my life that don’t help me achieve anything beyond enjoyment. If you’re not enjoying your time with Obsidian, that’s a different issue. But if you are enjoying yourself then just have a bit of fun. Who knows. Something may eventually come out of it.

1 Like

Hey @minhthanh3145 - yes I agree that “relevance-realisation” is a process description, the output of which is insight. And when we talk about finding “mental clarity” faced with a difficult problem or decision, what we mean is also that we lack insight…

Since we’re nerding-out a bit here, an interesting nuance around “relevance-realisation” that comes from Vervaeke’s paper is that he distinguishes between wisdom and analytical problem-solving. It’s a while since I read the paper (and ironically my notes are not to hand, ahem!) but I recall he made reference to Eastern traditions of thought in contrast with Western traditions… and his process term of relevance-realisation is modelled on the idea of wisdom. His line of argumentation was even quite humorous, noting that even really clever people can be pretty stupid sometimes, so logic and rationality are no magic pill.

In fact, Vervaeke (borrowing from Dreyfus) refers to a good “problem finder” rather than a good “problem solver” - the definition of a problem-finder being the ability to create a problem nexus, ie a problem that is connected to other problems and that if solved would solve those problems too. In other words, related problems are ‘relevant’ problems.

On your point about constraints, I also agree. I was just listening over the weekend to Lex Fridman’s podcast interview with Elon Musk (the latest one, they’re friends so he’s had Musk on the show a few times). Musk described (with examples) his now well-known approach of “thinking from first principles” which in a nutshell is about boiling down a problem to its axiomatic base: the most fundamental principles to which the problem is anchored, and which you know are true at a foundational level. He then ‘reasons up’ from there… and then checks his conclusion’s plausibility/possibility by referring right back to the axiomatic base. I think this idea provides a good mental framework for defining the boundary of relevance… if he can make the best rocket engine ever (better than NASA) and start so many disruptive businesses using this approach, then I figure he’s onto something!

A final thing Musk said is that “all the answers are out there” and are relatively easy to find, if only you can find the right questions: that’s the hard part. Questions (about relevance) are at the heart of effective learning. As another neuroscientist, Beau Lotto, says, “every new perception starts with a question.”

2 Likes

@Angel provided the home page, but the specific article I was thinking of is this one: How to write good prompts: using spaced repetition to create understanding

It’s an article about how to write good Anki card prompts, or questions. If you’re new to the idea of Anki cards, you can find some breadcrumbs to follow in this article for more background.

3 Likes

@CAD_O - yeah, I know what you mean about that “friction”… and the rabit hole! I think there’s also a ‘habit hole’ BTW…

Are you writing somewhere about these connections? I’m a Latinist (in a Classics PhD program, but take the long view of Latin, mainly work on Early Modern Science) and I’d LOVE to think along with people who have a sense of both the modern PKM landscape and exactly the sorts of authors and tools you mention.

I just watched this video that shows some creative and fun ways to use Obsidian

1 Like

How cool! My PhD is in medieval philosophy so I also focus on postclassical Latin. I find the question of premodern PKM fascinating and would like to explore it more someday but I’m definitely living off of the expertise of other scholars.

I think the study of premodern PKM has got to be linked closely to memory, since so much of knowledge management in those eras would have been done in their minds: it’s known that in ancient and medieval times intellectuals made a discipline of organizing their memories in ways that we rarely do today, since we can offload much of that work to paper or computers. To my knowledge the canonical studies here are those books by Mary Carruthers, which I’ve only read a little of but everyone speaks of highly. I often hear the medieval memory compared to a filing cabinet or a computer file system; there could be an article for someone to write comparing it to a wiki or Obsidian (etc.) vault.

Within my own field, I’ve noticed how the use of authoritative passages from the intellectual tradition become touchstones for certain debates and questions, and understanding this can help you interpret a text. Two passages in opposite parts of a massive book might be linked by the quotation or paraphrase of a Bible verse. Or a quotation from a Church Father or Aristotle might be quoted whenever a certain debate comes up, which means that seeing that quote in a passage might give you a clue to what you’re about to read about.

The tradition of commentary does similar work, too: if everyone is commenting on the same texts and asking the same questions of those texts, you have a uniform way of organizing ideas across authors. This still works today: I can’t tell you how many times, when I was wondering what an A said about X, my dissertation director would reply, “Well, X is covered in in section N of Lombard, so look up A’s commentary on N.”

None of that is exactly PKM the way we think about it, but it’s pretty similar: nonlinear knowledge networks that extend and enhance memory.

1 Like

I am going to contribute a relatively boring data point (unlike other comments with full of enthusiastic pursuits/professional achievements).

  1. My memory is really bad, to a point that I would forget where I wrote the notes. I’ve just been through a couple of major purchases, it’s so difficult to keep track of things like: contracting quotes, couch shopping, take down a ref number from a customer service phone call, etc… I really like the fact that, the moment that I type [[ and one keyword, I can pretty much find what I need, and all the interactions I had in the past.

  2. It kinda forced me/helped me to grow a habit of organizing things before I forget or leave it. It’s just so easy to write things down, and so easy to retrieve. One example - I had the idea of a small home project last year but did not have the bandwidth. I did some basic research and saved links and my thoughts in obsidian, with pretty much no format or structure. Last month I was able to fully recall my idea and did everything in a weekend. I am so glad those ideas didn’t just go to nowhere and I’d need to start fresh.

Side note: this habit is really beneficial in the work setting. Every end of day if I can write down a brief summary of what I did and what I should be doing the next day, it boosts productivity, reduce the booting time in the morning, and also helps writing your self review (sadly my company does not allow Obsidian so I am using Foam at work).

  1. I don’t like using apps. To be specific, I dislike those fancy apps that only do a very specific thing (like a todo) or a full website that keeps track of some niche things you use, along with a bunch of features you don’t need. I keep pretty much all my tasks management, short-term/long-term todos, journals, book notes, anything (as long as it’s not a data table) in Obsidian. In return, things become a lot simpler when you look at the relationships between them: a task is attached to a topic, that was mentioned on day x, day y, and day z.

  2. It makes journaling a lot easier. I’ve been switching journal apps over the last decades. Some are difficult to use, some are no longer supported/died, some requires internet, some are simply ugly, or slow to load, and I had quite a few physical notebooks, but my handwriting makes it not pleasant to read… Obsidian is just too easy to open and type something. In terms of why it’s an achievement - journaling helps mental health!

  3. It’s just way easier to program something to manipulate text. Couple line of python, done.

Overall I don’t think I am using Obsidian for the “hard core” PKM stuffs. They are not really knowledge knowledge (if you think knowledge is something you get from a MOOC or a book)? But I still have things that I need to remember, that I can’t, by my little poor head.

6 Likes

Oh, another link that I forgot about: the structure of the Bible, especially the Old Testament. There’s a school of interpretation of the Bible that argues that the Old Testament writers used key words, phrases, and motifs that go over the head of modern readers, but to original readers connect different passages together in intricate ways.

For instance, there is a recurring tree motif throughout the Bible, beginning with the Tree of Life and Tree of Knowledge in Genesis 3, stretching to Abraham entertaining the divine guests at the Oak of Mamre, to Moses at the burning bush, to Psalm 1 saying the righteous is like a tree, to Jesus cursing the fig tree, to the trees with healing leaves in Revelation. Whenever you see trees, you’re supposed to think back to the original two trees.

Similarly, there’s a motif of “seeing,” beginning with Eve seeing that the Tree of Knowledge was good to eat, to Aaron “seeing” the Golden Calf, David seeing Bathsheba, and so forth.

It’s not that these are tracking a “theme” in the modern sense. It’s not just that trees symbolize something in the Bible. Rather, when you see a certain word, you’re supposed to think, not just of an abstract idea, but of all the other stories you’ve read that use that word.

In essence, these words and motifs are wikilinks for your memory: each story contains links to other stories that help you interpret it. In fact, scholars sometimes actually call these “hyperlinks.” You’re supposed to read them in a nonlinear way, as a web of connected stories rather than a series of page turns.

There’s a great little group of scholars that are doing serious academic work in this area and also creating podcasts, videos, etc. for a popular audience at The Bible Project.

Never knew that… fascinating! It reminds me of the book “Godel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid” by cognitive scientist Douglas Hofstadter… he does something similar in that book, and you effectively learn about his idea of ‘we think by analogy’ in a similar manner to how you describe the Old Testament…